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 6P Closed

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AcRv
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:35 pm

Cracked Atlas wrote:
As four you, AcRv, please stop shooting down everything I try and do to get reads off of people. I thought you'd be able to figure out I didn't really want a No Lynch and that I was just doing it to see people's reactions.

/Sigh/ Unvote

... so you voted no lynch as a reaction test. And then you got my reaction. And that annoys you.

So you got a reaction from a reaction test and you're now annoyed.

I realised it was a reaction test shortly after posting that post, but it doesn't change the fact that you are annoyed because I reacted to a reaction test. Which doesn't make sense because if you were going for a reaction test as town you wouldn't care who set it off because you'd get a read. The fact that I set it off and that annoys you means that you already knew what was going to happen. And so now by making it look like I'm shooting everything of yours down you give the misconception that I'm scum.

Very good, very good. My vote stands. For the moment at least.
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:48 pm

Maybe my last post was also a reaction test. Freaky.

Isn't it, Bowie?

But yeah, now I have a pretty strong feeling that you're scum.

Anyone else think that AcRv is scum?

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:11 pm

Cracked Atlas wrote:
Anyone else think that AcRv is scum?

Yeah, I'm curious too. Is anyone actually listening to the crazy guy over here?
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:04 pm

Okay, okay, maybe you're right. Either way, maybe we should take a step back here.

The issue is, it's most us two throwing posts at each other, so naturally we're going to be accusing each other of being scum. I've made some bad posts, yes, I'm not going to deny. I'm prefer to be a quiet follower than a leader, but that would leave only one vocal poster in this game. Which would be bad. However, on the other hand, you've made some bad posts. See, there's playing aggressively, and then there's being outright insulting and alienating yourself from every other player.

Ahem, anyway, I'd still like to see if anyone else thinks AcRv is scum, but I'm also not ready to levy a full blown accusation at him myself. The issue is I haven't seen him play many games, so I have no idea his style. If this is it, then who knows? He could just be a slightly over-pedantic, over-aggressive townie.

Regardless, I'd like to try and be the voice of reason here, however, I'm also curious to see what everyone else feels at the moment. I have a question for everyone here. If we had to end the day right now, with a lynch, who would you vote for?

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:25 pm

Cracked Atlas wrote:
Maybe my last post was also a reaction test. Freaky.

Isn't it, Bowie?

But yeah, now I have a pretty strong feeling that you're scum.

Anyone else think that AcRv is scum?

Yes it is, Earl.
Also, yeah. AcRv is looking the scummiest out of everyone here, I'm going to hold my vote for the time being though.


Cracked Atlas: Town, for the time being.

AcRv: 'bout as scummy as I can find in this game.

Besse: Null, leaning town.

Cowering: Null.

Vorsprung: Null, most likely town.
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:49 pm

Mizicho wrote:
Also, yeah. AcRv is looking the scummiest out of everyone here, I'm going to hold my vote for the time being though
Why?
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:14 pm

AcRv wrote:
Mizicho wrote:
Also, yeah. AcRv is looking the scummiest out of everyone here, I'm going to hold my vote for the time being though
Why?

Why what?
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:45 am

Why do you think he looks scummy, natch.

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:06 pm

Mizicho: I was asking why you thought I was scum
Vorsprung: Get well soon so you can be awesome and post something game related
CoweringGiant: Post something
Beese: Post something
Cracked Atlas: Keep doing what you've been doing
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:10 pm

EBWOP: More specifically:
Beese: Post why you think I'm scum
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:10 pm

Argh, sorry:
Beese: Post why you think I'm most scummy
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:35 pm

You may be thinking bad of me for not posting as often as you two argue, but as I a few friends ( shocking, I know right) juggling social activities to coming here to accuse AcRv of being scum and not saying why is just a tad difficult. But I do get a post in nonetheless.

Your aggressive style like Cracked Atlas has quite clearly mention does make you look scummy, but if this your style of how you play then I wouldn't know.

Being annoyed a someone's reaction to an obvious reaction test is a bit stupid to say the least if you had an idea of how people might react.

I am really just rewriting what has already been said previously, as I have nothing new to add.

Also, the people that haven't posted in a while just like I hadn't should post soon in order for the rest of us to get their opinions on who is scum bass on what has been posted so far. So come on, where is the fun in watching two people argue each others scummyness.

On another note, writing large bodies of text is annoying on the iPhone.

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:39 pm

Well, anything that I would have said has been said by cowering.
Your aggressive pursuit of Cracked Atlas, this early in day 1 is looking particularly scummy.
Now, I know you do play fairly aggressively. It just looks really scummy, especially when compared to everyone else in this game.
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:23 pm

I was about to post something of contentm but mum's telling me I need to go. I'll be back in a few hours with my actual post.
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:26 pm

Fridge logic post.

You (AcRv) were annoyed at may reaction to your reaction to my reaction test. I wrote it as bad play on my mistake, as I was unable to comprehend /why/ exactly I was as annoyed as I was. It occurs. You are experienced. You should have known it was a reaction test, and waited to contribute. As an experienced player, you do know that the less experienced players are gonna be swayed by what you say, and as such, by reacting the way you did, you'd alter what I was going for.

However, I'm also not sure you're scum. In fact, I think you may just be acting far too aggressively because this game allows it, without paying heed to the fact that most of the people in this game are new, and bound to read aggressiveness as scumminess.

To all others players, my message is this. Keep your eye on AcRv, but don't hold too dear to the notion of him being scum. He may well be innocent.

Now, onto other matters, I feel Beese isn't posting enough. He's online a fair bit, we can't argue that, and he seemed a lot more vocal in AcRv's game. I find his silence particularly jarring, and I'd like to know why he's been so quiet.

So yeah, AcRv needs to tone it down, else he may be scum, and Beese needs to post more, else he may be scum.

We need more posts from Vorsprung as well. And more detailed posts by Mizicho.

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:41 pm

Now, at first. I thought you were scummy due to the overall aggressiveness of your posts. You later gave evidence that well, you gave evidence that had no solid grounds, just us taking your word for it. I haven't been that vocal because I really don't know what to make of it all Also I keep trying to post, then someone ninjas me with the exact same points. heh. AcRv seems like scum due to the aggressiveness, until Atlas's last post I started to think he was scum too, now that's kinda been washed away. Mizicho seems to be agreeing with everyone but that's understandable, I'd be doing the same. But instead I chose to be a little less vocal than usual.

I'm quiet when I have no clue what the fuck is going on.

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:02 pm

No vote changes, no new votecount required.

six alive, four to lynch.

Four days into three-week deadline etc..

Will prod Vorsprung tomorrow, I'm cutting him some slack though.

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:32 pm

Navarre has been removed from the replacements' list and added to the dead/spectator QT.

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:46 pm

Why?

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:17 pm

Cracked Atlas wrote:
Why?
I'm assuming he asked that he'd be removed.

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:56 pm

Cracked Atlas wrote:
Okay, okay, maybe you're right. Either way, maybe we should take a step back here.

The issue is, it's most us two throwing posts at each other, so naturally we're going to be accusing each other of being scum. I've made some bad posts, yes, I'm not going to deny. I'm prefer to be a quiet follower than a leader, but that would leave only one vocal poster in this game. Which would be bad. However, on the other hand, you've made some bad posts. See, there's playing aggressively, and then there's being outright insulting and alienating yourself from every other player.

Ahem, anyway, I'd still like to see if anyone else thinks AcRv is scum, but I'm also not ready to levy a full blown accusation at him myself. The issue is I haven't seen him play many games, so I have no idea his style. If this is it, then who knows? He could just be a slightly over-pedantic, over-aggressive townie.

Regardless, I'd like to try and be the voice of reason here, however, I'm also curious to see what everyone else feels at the moment. I have a question for everyone here. If we had to end the day right now, with a lynch, who would you vote for?

You say I made bad posts in which I alienated myself from other players. That's exactly what a town-aligned player should be doing if they have no power role, or if the only power they have makes them appear as scum, and doesn't benefit town. (yay)

What vanilla roles are best at are being agressive. Why? Because let's say you get attention drawn to you, which I clearly am, I'm protecting all of town's Power Roles right now. Scum know that I'm actively looking for them, and will see me as a threat because I will jump on the slightest things that they do. Getting a mislynch on me will be hard because while I'm agressive, I have a pro-town reason for doing everything I do. And if scum night kill me, we don't lose anything of value.

Cracked Atlas wrote:
Fridge logic post.

You (AcRv) were annoyed at may reaction to your reaction to my reaction test. I wrote it as bad play on my mistake, as I was unable to comprehend /why/ exactly I was as annoyed as I was. It occurs. You are experienced. You should have known it was a reaction test, and waited to contribute. As an experienced player, you do know that the less experienced players are gonna be swayed by what you say, and as such, by reacting the way you did, you'd alter what I was going for.
My first thought when I saw you go for a No Lynch was that you were trying to mislead the town intentionally. After I reacted in trying to get you lynched, I realised it was probably a reaction test, but couldn't really say "oh crap, that was a reaction test", because there was a slight chance someone would go with it. When Mizicho said he'd be okay with it. I didn't find it odd, because let's face it: Navarre is right in the way that Mizicho sheeps a fair bit. The rest of the stuff he says I don't agree with, but the sheeping bit is, and so it gave me nothing.

Cracked Atlas wrote:
However, I'm also not sure you're scum. In fact, I think you may just be acting far too aggressively because this game allows it, without paying heed to the fact that most of the people in this game are new, and bound to read aggressiveness as scumminess.
I remember Newbie 1184, where one of the SEs was lynched for being agressive. I was one of the people trying to defend him saying agression didn't equal scuminess. Because I had been a new player at the time, I thought that at least one new player here would realise that agression wasn't scummy.

Which reminds me of something: Everyone, tone is not important in finding scum. You don't look at apparent emotion or state of mind because they can be faked. You look entirely at the content (or lack thereof) and the context of it. That's important for everyone.

Cracked Atlas wrote:
To all others players, my message is this. Keep your eye on AcRv, but don't hold too dear to the notion of him being scum. He may well be innocent.
You should be keeping an eye on every single player. Emotion/state of mind should have no part in it, only the circumstances in which the content is presented.

Cracked Atlas wrote:
So yeah, AcRv needs to tone it down, else he may be scum, and Beese needs to post more, else he may be scum.
I will still be nit-picky, it's my job.

Beese wrote:
Now, at first. I thought you were scummy due to the overall aggressiveness of your posts. You later gave evidence that well, you gave evidence that had no solid grounds, just us taking your word for it.
Evidence with no solid grounds? That someone was being annoyed at a reaction test after getting a reaction? Before Cracked explained why he was annoyed in that post, you couldn't deny that not liking getting a reaction from a reaction test (which is the whole point of doing a reaction test) was off.

I'll explain my logic fully now, and then tell me where the holes in it are:
Town do reaction tests to see if people's reactions are townie or scummy.
Scum do reaction tests because they want to look like they're a townie trying to help.

The main difference is that a townie doesn't know who's going to do what, so they'll actually want a reaction and analyse it. A scum already knows how the townies are going to react, and could be hoping for a player that they know won't realise the action they'd pick is anti town (like Mizicho), and so will just be annoyed if someonet set it off other than their intended target.

Now I think about it, the fact Cracked didn't pick up on Mizicho supporting the anti-town option, it means that either they're buddies or Cracked is town and knows Mizicho enough to know he'd just sheep it.

Considering he did the unvote at L-2 to ensure there was no accidental mislynch, that makes me think that Mizicho is town, as I said earlier.

Although (coincidentally?) Mizicho unvoted Cracked Atlas at L-2...

Possible connection there? Maybe. Either they're scum buddies, or they're both town. Because:
Cracked as scum with Mizicho as town:
If Cracked was scum he'd have tried to get Mizicho lynched for supporting the anti-town move
Mizicho as scum and Cracked as town:
If Mizicho was scum he'd have kept his vote on Cracked Atlas when he was at L-2, because he wouldn't have cared about the accidental mislynch.

If ever you're lost with things to say, reread the crap out of the game. You're bound to find something.

My current reads:
Vorsprung: Null
CoweringGiant: Null
Mizicho: Either scum with Cracked or Town with Cracked
Cracked Atlas: Either scum with Mizicho or Town with Mizicho
AcRv: Miller

Upon rereading my post in the preview something occured to me: Cracked didn't even point out that Mizicho reacted to his reaction test... So maybe he was scum turning a blind eye to his buddy...

My vote is still on you Cracked, but not as harshly as it was before. Part of the reason it's there is because I don't have a better place for it.

Oh, and one last thing: In mafia there is no such thing as tl;dr
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:57 pm

Oh, and as for my read on Beese, it'll depend on his reaction to the part of my post directed at him under the quote from him.
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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:08 pm

Beese wrote:
Cracked Atlas wrote:
Why?
I'm assuming he asked that he'd be removed.
He wanted to know details about the game. I wouldn't normally bother doing a dead QT for a six player game, but it's a borderline thing, Navarre requesting game knowledge tipped it in favour of a dead/spectator QT. Trust me, dead QTs are great fun, they consist of lots of yelling about how obvscum various players are.

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:31 pm

AcRv wrote:

Evidence with no solid grounds? That someone was being annoyed at a reaction test after getting a reaction? Before Cracked explained why he was annoyed in that post, you couldn't deny that not liking getting a reaction from a reaction test (which is the whole point of doing a reaction test) was off.

I do agree that it's off, and that's why in my post I said he is now looking scummy too. Although I'm not ruling you out as scum, that would be silly. Also, Just wondering are roles reviled on death? Because if we lynch Cracked and he flips a town role I'm going to naturally assume you're scum. I'm naturally assuming so.

Or maybe even lynching Mizicho, you seem to have the same idea as me that he's scummy. But that's a bit of a wildcard option there.

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PostSubject: Re: 6P Closed   Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:56 pm

Beese wrote:
Also, Just wondering are roles reviled on death?
First up, I'm going to assume that was directed at me. If it wasn't: questions about mechanics are normally fair to ask the mod about, and even if you do ask something that the mod can't answer, they'll generally just say so. Second, it helps to make it clear that questions/requests are directed at the mod. Third up, it would be very unusual not to reveal roles on death, I would personally consider such a mechanic borderline bastard, though it can be excused in exceptional circumstances; even in those circumstances, the game could never be considered 'normal'. Fourth, and partially answered by third, yes, roles and role PMs will be revealed on death.

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