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 003 - Lovers Mafia

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Mizicho

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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:46 am

Cracked Atlas wrote:
Wait a second, here. There's been a whole lot of accusations and counter accusations, and the best you can do is repost your old reads from before all of those accusations took place? That's... there's... I don't.... Gah!

After the big 'ol fight between me and Beese, I've been waiting to see where everyone is in this game. You take over 2 days to posy anything, and when you do, you don't post anything even the slightest bit useful or relevant. And then, of course, there's Navarre who can't seem to be fucked posting anything at all.

Come on guys, we need more than... 3 people posting, or else this game will go nowhere.

I actually stand by my reads, Besse is looking a little more scummy, but he's still leaning town. Vice-versa with you.
I think you're still probably scum, but you're looking a little more town-y

You know what... I don't stand by my reads.

Krika is looking town, but I could easily be wrong.
Besse is still leaning town slightly.
Cracked, you're looking a scummy, but you're sliding to town
Navarre, well. I think that speaks for itself (He's very scummy)

As for Voursrpung, I have a feeling he's scum with Navarre, or Cracked
Usually people stay out mine and Navarre's fights. But for some reason he chose to intervene a little.
Now, in a non-mafia game, I wouldn't have a problem with this.
But this is mafia dammit, you have to be paranoid about everything. Especially when you're the paranoid cop. Methinks one should at least try to stay in character.
Gah, I'm ranting on.
Anyway, the fact that he stepped in gives me the feeling that he's trying to gain my trust to possibly sway my vote.
But he forgot one vital piece of rule.
Never trust anyone.

Vote: Voursprung
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Cracked Atlas
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:07 pm

So because he intervened in your fight, something that would logically annoy you, he was actually trying to gain your trust. And being trustworthy makes someone scum.

Wut?

I think I majorly misinterpreted that, could you explain your logic a little more clearly?

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AcRv
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:09 pm

Mizicho wrote:
Also, AcRv wouldn't put us together. EVER!

Mod note: roles were randomised

I would vote count but I'll wait til next page.
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Navarre

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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:11 pm

Did you have to prod me? I mean you should have known the reason for not posting but i already think vorsprung is scum and jumping on a self voting townie isnt helping his case. I must have forgotten to do this last time but

unvote
vote: vorsprung
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Navarre

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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:13 pm

Also mizicho reasons for your accusations on me?
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AcRv
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:05 pm

Votecount 1.6
(2) Beese - Vorsprung, Beese (L-2)
(2) Vorsprung - Mizicho, Navarre (L-2)
(0) Mizicho -
(0) Krika -
(0) Navarre -
(0) Cracked Atlas -

Not Voting - Cracked Atlas, Krika

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch!

Navarre wrote:
Did you have to prod me?
Yes.

Prodding Vorsprung
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Melexiious
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:22 pm

/unvote beese
/vote vorsprung

Because.

Also Cracked, why are you so defensive of Vorsprung?

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Navarre

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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:00 pm

Unvote

preventing hammer
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Melexiious
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:07 pm

Well you're just no fun, are you?

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Cracked Atlas
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:21 pm

In this set-up, I'd defend anyone whom I have reason to believe is town. In fact, I'd almost be ready to defend you, but not quite. I still have my suspicions about you.

Which brings me to my next point. Navarre, why are you so certain that Beese is town? Yes, he did that whole self-vote thing, but he's done plenty of other rather scummy things to offset that.

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Melexiious
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:51 pm

Cracked Atlas wrote:
In this set-up, I'd defend anyone whom I have reason to believe is town. In fact, I'd almost be ready to defend you, but not quite. I still have my suspicions about you.

Which brings me to my next point. Navarre, why are you so certain that Beese is town? Yes, he did that whole self-vote thing, but he's done plenty of other rather scummy things to offset that.
Like?

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Navarre

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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:32 pm

I actually think they are more or less scummy. I voted for vorsprung because he was being a dick to me and i unvoted because even though he was a dick, it is not a good enough reason to allow someone else to hammer him
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Cracked Atlas
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:18 pm

So you admit to lying about why you voted for someone?

No, sure, that's fine, yeah.


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Navarre

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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:29 am

Wha? Wheres my lie? I said they were close to equal scumminess but vors is more scummy. Showing favouritism on a vote isnt uncommon either
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Cracked Atlas
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:54 am

Navarre wrote:
Did you have to prod me? I mean you should have known the reason for not posting but i already think vorsprung is scum and jumping on a self voting townie isnt helping his case. I must have forgotten to do this last time but

unvote
vote: vorsprung

Here the witness says Vorsprung's scum, and that he looks even scummier because he voted for a self-voting townie. But just now, he said that he thinks Beese and Vorsprung are more-or-less equally scummy!

This is a clear contradiction in his testimony!

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Vorsprung

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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:17 am

One - can no-one spelll my name right? Seriously?

Two - so, Navarre's voted me because I was "a dick" to him?

THAT'S NOT HOW THE GAME'S SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED.
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Vorsprung

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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:19 am

I'd also like to point out I voted Beese way before he elected to hammer himself.

I also "intervened", as it where, in the little slap-fight between Michizo / Navarre because Navarre was pissing me off. That, and it's perfectly relevant for me to defend myself against suspicion - as well as point out the obvious flaws in Navarre's arguements.

I can get very pissy.

And sorry about the double-post.
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Melexiious
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:14 am

Vorsprung wrote:
I'd also like to point out I voted Beese way before he elected to hammer himself.

I also "intervened", as it where, in the little slap-fight between Michizo / Navarre because Navarre was pissing me off. That, and it's perfectly relevant for me to defend myself against suspicion - as well as point out the obvious flaws in Navarre's arguements.

I can get very pissy.

And sorry about the double-post.
And did you ever notice, or just simply forgot that I voted YOU way before you voted me, if you'd remember. So your argument is null and your evidence mine. Something pretty obvious to just simply ignore.

I still think both you and cracked are scum buddies. Mizicho, Navarre and Krika. You can see that at least ONE of these two are Mafia, if not both of them. Cracked is much more aggressive in this game and starts getting desperate when Vorsprung gets lynched. And Vorsprung is too, aggressiveness is an obvious tell of mafia.

There's a very high chance that a town role wwill be killed in the first round it's a 2/3 chance, Cracked and Vorsprung both don't want that because if it lands on them, they'll probably loose.

I mean, Cracked can agree that he will protect those he thinks town, but lets be honest. This isn't the game ending vote, we have 1 more votes after that vote before Mafia can win. And he's trying to shoot it this days vote off Vorsprung. There's only one way someone can be so affectionate towards someone during a mafia-lovers game, and that's the Homosexuals!

Because you have to admit, they look scummy. We have a day after this, so it's better to vote on someone soon, and through that see who's left to kill mafia.

My vote still stays on Vorsprung and you should vote him too.

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Melexiious
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:16 am

EBWOP:

desperate when Vorsprung starts to get votes on him.

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Vorsprung

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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:25 am

...But by that logic, Beese looks just as scummy too?

Come on.
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Melexiious
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:41 am

Vorsprung wrote:
...But by that logic, Beese looks just as scummy too?

Come on.
I mean, I'm fine with people lynching me and revealing my role. I ain't scum and I'm free to prove it.

Also, Back to the WIFOM, who the hell is stupid enough to take a risk like that? I'd only do something like that if I was certain of the results.

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Cracked Atlas
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:20 pm

You're right, this isn't the game ending vote. But I always err on the side of caution regardless. If not, I'd just vote for you.

However, you seem to do something else scummy every single time you post. I was ignoring it on the reasoning that no scum player would act that scummy, but maybe you've just been slipping up? Still...

Beese wrote:
My I throw in an old quote from the first game derived from your truly.

"But I mainly like throwing fire into the game, causing confusion."

I have my plans and my schemes, just give me a bit and they'll play out.

I know you posted this a while ago, but it's been playing on my mind. It's so painfully, outwardly scummy that I wasn't sure how to process it. Vanilla townies do not gambit. Town in general don't spread confusion. The whole point of town is to cut into the confusion that scum are trying to spread. Like, spreading confusion is the whole point of scum play. It's inherently scummy. So when someone says outright that they're trying to spread confusion...

Even if they're not scum, it's still anti-town play. Same with your over-the-top breakdown. 'S anti-town.

Beese wrote:
And did you ever notice, or just simply forgot that I voted YOU way before you voted me, if you'd remember. So your argument is null and your evidence mine. Something pretty obvious to just simply ignore.

This line also rubs me the wrong way. Your having voted him did not at any point come into his argument, yet you use it to immediately debunk it without any discussion? Maybe he was making you sweat, so you decided to try and invalidate your entire argument and hope town wouldn't notice. Only, it was so obviously noticeable. Even if it's what you believe, it's destroying the point of the game. You can't just ignore someone's entire game.

Once again, even if you're town, it's anti-town play.

Actually, you know what? Maybe we've reached the point in this game where it's time to throw caution to the wind. I dislike voting day one, but the town do have to reach a consensus in this game.

Vote:Beese for overtly anti-town play.

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Melexiious
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:44 pm

Cracked Atlas wrote:

You're right, this isn't the game ending vote. But I always err on the side of caution regardless. If not, I'd just vote for you.
Even if they're not scum, it's still anti-town play. Same with your over-the-top breakdown. 'S anti-town.

It was a Calculated break down.

Cracked Atlas wrote:


Beese wrote:
And did you ever notice, or just simply forgot that I voted YOU way before you voted me, if you'd remember. So your argument is null and your evidence mine. Something pretty obvious to just simply ignore.

This line also rubs me the wrong way. Your having voted him did not at any point come into his argument, yet you use it to immediately debunk it without any discussion? Maybe he was making you sweat, so you decided to try and invalidate your entire argument and hope town wouldn't notice. Only, it was so obviously noticeable. Even if it's what you believe, it's destroying the point of the game. You can't just ignore someone's entire game.

Yes, I debunked it. Because it's logic was flawed and point invalid. If Vorsprung wanted to have a discussion about it, he was free to debate it. He hasn't yet, and he didn't even try to. He knew it was flawed and he didn't even attempt to defend it. He just said made a single line turning it around again, that's not a debatable post.

Cracked Atlas wrote:

Actually, you know what? Maybe we've reached the point in this game where it's time to throw caution to the wind. I dislike voting day one, but the town do have to reach a consensus in this game

Well you had to at some point you know, there is only two days.

Cracked Atlas wrote:
Vote:Beese for overtly anti-town play.

But there's one thing I've picked up, You're onto me and you know I've been getting people to start agreeing with me and I know you, I know your play style quite well and you I know you don't think of the short term, you think in the long run. Why did I quote this? Because you worded this quite precisely, you know I'm not scum and you're using this as a fail safe for when you try and convince Mizicho, Navarre and Kirika to vote me. They can't use my argument that I've been setting up against you.

I BET when I flip town when I did, you'll use that line as false evidence to say "Oh, but he was acting anti-scum as I said, I didn't know!"

Also killing someone for Anti-Town action? What? You're admitting to lynching town? That's scummy or you're admitting to lynching someone who's scum? That's even scummier. Choose one, there's no middle ground in the long run. You're either lynching me for being scum or not.

Great, now you're being confusing.




tl;dr Cracked and Vorsprung are still homosexual and my vote is still firmly placed on Vorsprung.

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Vorsprung

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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:45 pm

Beese wrote:
Yes, I debunked it. Because it's logic was flawed and point invalid. If Vorsprung wanted to have a discussion about it, he was free to debate it. He hasn't yet, and he didn't even try to. He knew it was flawed and he didn't even attempt to defend it. He just said made a single line turning it around again, that's not a debatable post.
Hey, don't tell me what I know.
What I'm trying to do is be smart about my posts.
You seem dead-keen on lynching me, so it's perfectly legit for me to bide my time.
And not post like a crazy scum bum.
Like you.
Thanks.
Also, I've got pneumonia, exams, and general tiredness.
And this is cutting into my TF2 time.
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Cracked Atlas
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PostSubject: Re: 003 - Lovers Mafia   Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:19 pm

Lynching town inherently scummy? Oh, Beese, you don't play many games, do you?

If someone, even a townie, is acting anti-town, then it is a perfectly legitimate strategy to lynch them. I mean really, if someone is hurting town chances of winning, then lynching them will increase town's chances of winning. Which, in case you've forgotten, is good. Furthermore, as 1337ness pointed out in AcRv's Game the First, if a player looks really scummy, which you do, then it's best to lynch them early in order to stop Scum from being able to keep them alive long enough to push for an easy mislynch during LyLo.

And, no, I don't have to pick one. See, the way I see it, there are three possibilities here.
A) You're scum. In which case we lynch you, and win.
B)You're acting anti-town, in which case we lynch you, and increase our chances of winning.
C) You're a suitably scummy scapegoat, in which case we lynch you day 2, and scum wins.

So at this point, even if you are town, you're simply adding scum by staying alive.

Must... resist urge... to post... Bee Gees.

Still you could just as easily be a really bad scum player. Either way, I think lynching you today is the most sensible option. And if you are town, I'm sorry, but I'm playing to win here.


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