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AcRv
The Traitor


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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:33 pm

Vote Count 3.4

1337ness_of_teh_n00b (2) - Melexiious, Captain Manlove L-2!
Captain Manlove (2) - 1337ness_of_teh_n00b, Tunnel Snakes Rule L-2!

Not Voting: Cracked Atlas, Iced_tea

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch!

Day 3 Deadline - really darn close!
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Iced_Tea



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:53 pm

I should probably add that if we're including 1337ness+TSR, that puts 1337ness+Manlove back on the table too as both assume no-kill nights. Options:

1337ness+Melexx
Manlove+Melexx

1337ness+TSR
1337ness+Manlove

Considering that Manlove would've been a pretty bad target for scum, I'm inclined to assume he wasn't the target on any of the nights. (Both 1337ness+Melexx and 1337ness+TSR assume Manlove as a target.) Atlas as target N1 could make sense, but that's only possible if we assume TSR to not be scum. 1337ness's bulletproof is the best explanation for the way our nights went (barring no-kill), which is why I'm gravitating towards scum comps without 1337ness despite my suspicions of him. 1337ness would've been the perfect target for scum aswell, seeing as his death would immediately put suspicion on me, causing me to get lynched, in turn causing scum to win.

Without any posts from Atlas, I'll probably go for Manlove. I'm awake for the rest of the deadline so I'll withhold my vote for another few hours to give Atlas a chance to change my mind.
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Captain Manlove



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:21 am

Iced_Tea wrote:
I should probably add that if we're including 1337ness+TSR, that puts 1337ness+Manlove back on the table too as both assume no-kill nights. Options:

1337ness+Melexx
Manlove+Melexx

1337ness+TSR
1337ness+Manlove

Of those options I'm convinced that scum is 1337ness and TSR.
I feel 1337ness could be scum because of his actions throughout the game, he's been quite open and active throughout the game, explaining the game meta and basically directing the flow of the game by doing so. Though while you could just as easily take this to mean he's simply experienced enough to know how to get the game going, I feel it'd be the best disguise for scum, hiding yourself as basically an alpha-townie, gaining town's trust to make lynching easy while slowly setting up for victory, avoiding nightkills and heavily supporting no-lynches to keep the town guessing and give them no deaths to start up serious discussion and narrow the pool (even on the morning of D3 we had just as much to work with as D1 because of the lack of deaths) then suggesting a Massclaim to firstly, know definite targets when they're needed for later, but more importantly to quickly get the town to try lynch a townie in the confusion. I suppose you could shoo this off with an Occam's razor defense, but It's been established and can be confirmed by several people here that 1337ness isn't the kind to play it safe and simple, if anyone was to have the chutzpah and know-how to go about a strategy like this it would be him.

Furthermore, if anyone would make a good partner to this it would be TSR, his low level of involvement and generally passive play would lead any to believe doctor to be a reasonably likely claim, since there's basically nothing else to go on from TSR. With no clear alignment and the suspicion of a second doctor brought upon by 1337ness' observation of Orandulum's Role PM, claiming town doctor would be the easiest way to instantly gain trust with and manipulate the town through false readings. With melex's check's missing action that may or may not have happened, there's absolutely no telling the difference between scum playing a dirty game and doctor doing a good job.

I understand that from my point of view there's only two options to pick from so this doesn't narrow down things much for everyone else but for what its worth I'm positive these two are scum buddies. Though still holding out for Atlus' 2 cents on the matter, it'd probably be better to hear analysis from someone with an alibi than a man on L-2.
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Iced_Tea



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:51 am

I'll try to keep this short:

As others noted D1, being way active is what 1337ness always does, whether he's scum or not. Considering someone scum just for being very active isn't a good idea IMO. With that said I could see this just being l33t risky play coming from 1337ness. If Atlas agrees that everything 1337ness has done so far could conceiveably have been part of some machiavellian sheme (including the inevitable no-kills), I'm inclined to support him on that.

Outside of "1337ness is making l33t risk plays", Manlove seems the best target. (Actually, Melexx would be a good target too, but because of deadline we can't lynch him anymore, so we're down to either 1337ness or Manlove.)

I'll probably just second whatever Atlas's conclusion is (I kind of have to, seeing as we'll just get a draw if me and Atlas vote differently).
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Tunnel Snakes Rule



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:25 am

Captain Manlove wrote:
Furthermore, if anyone would make a good partner to this it would be TSR, his low level of involvement and generally passive play would lead any to believe doctor to be a reasonably likely claim, since there's basically nothing else to go on from TSR. With no clear alignment and the suspicion of a second doctor brought upon by 1337ness' observation of Orandulum's Role PM, claiming town doctor would be the easiest way to instantly gain trust with and manipulate the town through false readings. With melex's check's missing action that may or may not have happened, there's absolutely no telling the difference between scum playing a dirty game and doctor doing a good job.

I understand that from my point of view there's only two options to pick from so this doesn't narrow down things much for everyone else but for what its worth I'm positive these two are scum buddies. Though still holding out for Atlus' 2 cents on the matter, it'd probably be better to hear analysis from someone with an alibi than a man on L-2.

If l33t and I were scum buddies, why would he admit that my claim as the Town Doctor is a good claim. Surely that would just raise more suspicion. I am aware of his capability of busing his scum buddy to secure himself as town. However given the arguments placed before me it is my opinion that you are the most likely to be scum. That's not to say that I don't think L33t might be, he very well could be scum trying to bus you.

I had considered voting to lynch you when L33t put his argument against you but decided to hold off until I had heard the arguments of others. However, we are pressed for time and if we waste this day, scum are going to get a rather worrisome advantage of town. I'm trying to do what i can to avoid this.
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Cracked Atlas
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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:58 am

So, I've /mostly/ caught up, and I've run a few scenarios in my head.

I feel there's a good chance of 1337ness being scum. After that, it's hard to say. However, because of that, I feel comfortable voting for him.

Also, if he isn't, scum is almost certainly TSR + Manlove. Which I feel is unlikely?

So yeah, Vote:1337ness_of_teh_n00b

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Iced_Tea



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:23 am

I'm still doubtful on both options, but I shall support Atlas's decision as promised.

Vote: 1337ness_of_teh_n00b
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AcRv
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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:18 am

Vote Count 3.5

1337ness_of_teh_n00b (4) - Melexiious, Captain Manlove, Cracked Atlas, Iced_tea LYNCHED!
Captain Manlove (2) - 1337ness_of_teh_n00b, Tunnel Snakes Rule L-2!

Not Voting: Nobody

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch!

End of Day 2

***
As the sun sets in the sky, the town decide they should kill someone before the strict island's bedtime is enforced. 1337ness_of_teh_n00b is taken outside with his lengthy name containing underscores that had been driving the mod insane when needing to type it out and hung using Orandulum's intestines which had been exposed the entire time. They then buried Orandulum's body.
***

1337ness_of_teh_n00b was a Mafia Goon!
Redacted Role PM:
Quote :
Congratulations! You are a Mafia Goon!

Abilities: Before the game starts and during the night phases, you are able to talk privately with other member(s) of your faction in this thread (link removed obviously).
Each night your faction can make a kill.
During the day phase, you may vote on who you want to see lynched.

Win Condition: You win if your faction controls at least 50% of the votes, or when nothing can stop this from happening.

It is now night time. No posting in thread for 48 hours. Submit any night actions by then.

Here is your ticking clock.
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AcRv
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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:24 pm

Same deal as usual, I get here late, everyone wakes up, nobody's dead.

Day 4 Start

Vote Count 4.0

Not Voting: Cracked Atlas, Melexiious, Captain Manlove, Iced_tea, Tunnel Snakes Rule

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch!

Deadline in one week from this post.


Countdown


Last edited by AcRv on Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Captain Manlove



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:43 pm

Gotta say, scum really aren't bringing the A-game on the killing players side of things, gotta get it together guys seriously.


Anyway on a more relevant note, if Melex and TSR would be so kind as to reveal their actions last night, that would be wonderful.
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Iced_Tea



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:45 pm

Captain Manlove wrote:
Anyway on a more relevant note, if Melex and TSR would be so kind as to reveal their actions last night, that would be wonderful.

Asking nicely gets me really wet.

Also, scum are hilariously bad at murder. That or this is a strategy, I'll share my thoughts on that once Melexx and TSR have published their reads.
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AcRv
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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:50 pm

This is Day Four, not Day Three. Editing the start of day post accordingly.
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Tunnel Snakes Rule



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:37 pm

I have a decent sized post coming up but I'll wait on Melexxious to post his action before doing so, as it does require that knowledge.
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Iced_Tea



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:42 pm

Tunnel Snakes Rule wrote:
I have a decent sized post coming up but I'll wait on Melexxious to post his action before doing so, as it does require that knowledge.

You also have an action to post. Did you forget you're supposedly a doctor?
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Tunnel Snakes Rule



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:48 am

Iced_Tea wrote:
Tunnel Snakes Rule wrote:
I have a decent sized post coming up but I'll wait on Melexxious to post his action before doing so, as it does require that knowledge.

You also have an action to post. Did you forget you're supposedly a doctor?

I know I also have that to post, but I can't post one without the other.
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Iced_Tea



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:57 am

Why can't you? It's pretty suspicious that you're refusing to reveal your action so much. If you were an informative role that might make sense, but all you have to reveal is your target. Or am I misunderstanding the way doctor works?
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Tunnel Snakes Rule



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:02 am

Iced_Tea wrote:
Why can't you? It's pretty suspicious that you're refusing to reveal your action so much. If you were an informative role that might make sense, but all you have to reveal is your target. Or am I misunderstanding the way doctor works?

Because it could also worsen my current position. The person whose vote I supported yesterday ended up being scum, I made a bad call. Now people would come to the conclusion that I am probably scum.

However if it's that important to you, I'll post the first half and wait for Melexxious to post before I post the second.

During the night phase I was going over what series of events would make me look the most scummy. Seeing as the person whose vote I was supporting turned out to be scum, attention will probably fall to me as the next likely target for scum. At night I healed Iced. The reason I chose Iced was because scum would almost definitely kill the one person who is confirmed (By the mod, no less) to be town. Scum would also know that attention would fall on me to be scum so killing me would not only help to bring attention away from them, but to solidify themselves as being town.
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Iced_Tea



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:08 am

Okay thanks, you didn't actually have to go into that much detail. I really only wanted to know who you targetted.

Anyway, let's wait on Melexx then.

Considering I almost supported 1337ness aswell I could see you being town despite supporting him. I won't say more than that until we've heard Melexx's action.
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Tunnel Snakes Rule



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:13 am

Iced_Tea wrote:
Okay thanks, you didn't actually have to go into that much detail. I really only wanted to know who you targetted.

Anyway, let's wait on Melexx then.

Considering I almost supported 1337ness aswell I could see you being town despite supporting him. I won't say more than that until we've heard Melexx's action.

I had a big post ready with variations depending on what Melexxious claimed to do, and the detail will make more sense when I actually post it. However I will wait until he does post before going into any more of that.
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Melexiious
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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:06 am

Sorry, my dudes.

I saw scum trying to kill Iced_Tea.

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Iced_Tea



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:40 am

Well... uh.... this changes things quite a bit.

Melexx's read seems to back up TSR's. Since there's only 1 scum left, they definitely aren't scum buddies. It's still possible for one of them to be scum, however it can't be TSR. (If we assume TSR to be scum, Melexx would be town and therefore would have no reason to lie about his result, unless he's trolling but that's unlikely.) Melexx could be scum trying to look town by posting a result that agrees with TSR, though. I realize that assumes Melexx to have royally fucked up by exhonorating a prime suspect, but I think such a misplay is quite plausible.

Before I completely clear TSR of all suspicion in my mind, I'd like to hear both TSR's promised message and other people's takes on this (especially Atlas).

I'll comment on Manlove vs Melexx once it's actually come to that (meaning once everyone else has confirmed I'm not missing anything on TSR right now).
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Iced_Tea



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:43 am

(I guess it's also possible for TSR to be some kind of special scum role that allows him to make it look like someone tried to kill me from Melexx's perspective. It's really late here so someone else look up if such a role even exists, and what it is called if it does.)
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Melexiious
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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:25 pm

I highly doubt that. But considering all the fucking dumb and crazy roles in this game it's maybe possible.
Actually no, I'm gonna rule that one out. My thinking is that scum might have their own modifier for the last scum and ACRV threw in my role to balance it all out.

Doesn't really make much sense there's only 1 'Vanilla Town' in the entire game, and that everything else is special roles.
I think I would've been slated for another vanilla role but ACRV needed to balance the game out just a tad, which would imply scum having a power-role.

Two doctors, a 1-shot bullet proof, a conf-town. All really powerful for town, maybe a bit /too/ powerful. So he gave scum a power-role, thought that was too powerful for scum and gave me this role just to balance it out just right.

Scum is having a hard time killing is because the game is /designed/ to be hard for scum to kill. To give that 'Hey.. nothing happened in the night'
1-BP?
1 Doc?
1 Macho Doc?

My thinking for this? ACRV wanted this game to last as long as humanly possible, and that does actually make sense considering it's probably the only mafia game we'll be playing for awhile I think (Unless more people have the sudden urge to play another, which I'unno, I'd actually be up for another game but you know). I don't think TSR is scum, I've always considered him town from the first few pages and for the most part he hasn't done anything super scummy and anything else can be misattributed to small mistakes in meta logic. And he fits rather well into my ideas of who's scum and who's town.

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Tunnel Snakes Rule



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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:02 pm

Melexiious wrote:
Sorry, my dudes.

I saw scum trying to kill Iced_Tea.

Well, this is a little awkward for me. I thought the Voyeur was actually the Tracker (who can see who targeted someone, but not what action they performed) This does make a lot of what I had planned absolutely irrelevant, but I'll salvage what I can and combine it with my general thoughts on the situation.

In the most relevant variation, I was running with the assumption that Melexxious could see that I visited Iced last night and thought of myself as being scum. From there, he could put forward the claim that I was scum. If that were the case, who else could have visited Iced at night? If there was another doctor, why would they hide it in massclaim. Again this is all irrelevant as not only did I get the two roles confused but Melexxious thinks of me as town.

Melexiious wrote:
I highly doubt that. But considering all the fucking dumb and crazy roles in this game it's maybe possible.
Actually no, I'm gonna rule that one out. My thinking is that scum might have their own modifier for the last scum and ACRV threw in my role to balance it all out.

Doesn't really make much sense there's only 1 'Vanilla Town' in the entire game, and that everything else is special roles.
I think I would've been slated for another vanilla role but ACRV needed to balance the game out just a tad, which would imply scum having a power-role.

Two doctors, a 1-shot bullet proof, a conf-town. All really powerful for town, maybe a bit /too/ powerful. So he gave scum a power-role, thought that was too powerful for scum and gave me this role just to balance it out just right.

Scum is having a hard time killing is because the game is /designed/ to be hard for scum to kill. To give that 'Hey.. nothing happened in the night'
1-BP?
1 Doc?
1 Macho Doc?

My thinking for this? ACRV wanted this game to last as long as humanly possible, and that does actually make sense considering it's probably the only mafia game we'll be playing for awhile I think (Unless more people have the sudden urge to play another, which I'unno, I'd actually be up for another game but you know). I don't think TSR is scum, I've always considered him town from the first few pages and for the most part he hasn't done anything super scummy and anything else can be misattributed to small mistakes in meta logic. And he fits rather well into my ideas of who's scum and who's town.

Games that are almost entirely flavorful roles are possible. However I do agree with you that the last scum could potentially have an extra power, but as to what power that could be I have no idea. Of course it is possible that Atlas could be scum claiming to be vanilla town. Come to think of it that almost makes sense. It's the only role that doesn't fit in with the general "Flavor/power role" theme that this game has. Now it's very likely that Atlas could have just been busy when he wasn't posting yesterday. However it could also be him going under the radar. I recall that he only made a couple of posts after the mass claim, and one of which was to lynch L33t after Iced had said that he would follow on whatever Atlas does. Atlas could have quickly bussed his scum buddy to confirm himself as town and lead to a scum win.
Aside from putting forward the motion of a massclaim (Which while pro-town, lead to scum going for the only confirmed town), has Atlas really done anything to confirm his place as town? Of course I could just be pretty stupid and not realize that others think he is town.

Now, I'm not saying that Atlas is definitely scum. What I am saying is we can't rule him out as not being scum and we should explore all of the possibilities of the potential scum.
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Cracked Atlas
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PostSubject: Re: Mafia 2016   Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:18 pm

Re-read the set-up, friend. There is guaranteed to be one Vanilla Townie. I was the only person to claim VT. Therefore, I have to be town. No other way about.

Also, you're honest to God trying to accuse a conf-town of potentially being scum. Which... might just be the single ballsiest thing I've ever seen a scum player do? I'm guessing you're just not used to this kind of thing before, but yeah, in these kinda of flavor heavy games, the GM will include a VT so they can have the sample role-PM at the start.

Also, in a game like this, the VT almost /is/ a power-role. Or, I just really like playing VT. Either way, due to scum not trying to claim it themselves, we got two conf-towns.

I'll post some more later, I need to leave now.

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